Slick Trick Review - continuing

[bowtech]

Posted - 09/19/2005 : 07:09:49
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Phase 1:

On inspection, this head seems to be a solid design.

The one piece body with trocar style leading tip is small...very small but gives confidence when inspected.
The strength of the metal removes any doubt one might have , due to the small dia. of the Ferrel itself on first inspection.

The blades are (again) a confidence builder.
Very heavy material in comparison to other replacement blades out there.

The blades are assembled within the body (which is a one piece design) and backed with a steel washer (included)to keep the blades in the body of the Ferrel.

This was one thing I did not care for or rather I should say,it made me a little nervous because the blades were not rock solid within the body.
(Movement of the blades from side to side was limited yet evident)

Next it was time to shoot.

These heads flew as did my field points and I will say that (so far) these are the best 4blade head (in flight) that I have used so far.

I had the opportunity to do an actual kill with the slick trick on a sizable opossum and the results were excellent.
5' from point of impact to end of flight.

Now I know that this is a poor test (seemingly)but none the less , I was impressed

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PHASE 2:

Breakage occurred on one head,through the body in total at the intersection of the shaft.

The break left 4 separate pieces of the broadhead inside the shaft.

The broadhead itself did not shed away parts of itself (beyond the break off) but snapped in half through the cross section where it is machined to receive the blades.

The blades were in great shape! ;D

Another head took a very good hit which caused sparks to fly and there was no ill effect to the head at all except for a VERY SMALL bend on the leading tip.

A few swipes with a file put it right back in order and also allowed me to see the hardness of the metal itself.
(quality material which didn't give away to the file easily)
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So far the Slick Trick head has had a good showing with the exception of the loose fitting blades which still unnerves me a bit

The breakage ...I am just not convinced that it is the fault of the head yet.

It could be that the metal is overly hard which would/could lead to higher breakage on hard impact or... it could have been a fluke

That remains to be seen

[bowtech]

retrieved from same report:

Posted - 02/05/2006 : 12:17:49
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Hi, This is Gary from ST. Since I noticed ST is blocked out everywhere I won't say it either. Don't have a clue as to why it would be a dirty word though??? As to tests, I love tests and encourage them. As far as flight, I advertise field point flight or your money back. I recall refunding about 5 orders last year because of that. And they had to be shooting boomerangs for arrows. As to other testing, 5shot, who tests extensively, said in his tests ST flew the same as fieldpoints even in mistuned bows. Don't know why you would experience otherwise.

Actually the first time I have heard anybody say there is a flaw with ST flight. And, 02/26/2004, reading your testing, you said "Try the _____ ______ Broadhead if you want the best flight head out there that is a fixed blade (IMO)". I know a guy who can put 75% of Tricks in a 6" circle at 100 yards. Thats not bad. And I noticed you shot a possum where you stated "It flew great and the cut was awesome! Just seems a little inconsistent saying ST flight was flawed.

As to breaking a ferrule, plenty of guys tell about what they have experienced and say ST are the toughest heads out there. I don't advertise that, but those comments confirm they are rather strong. I did have a few a couple years ago that escaped with incorrect heat treat but only a few, perhaps you were lucky enough to get one of those. If you look on the ST site you will find pics of a guy who killed a Cape Buff through a rib to the heart, and other animals with 04 heads so they are plenty strong.

That being said, any head that is embedded in something like wood or bone, will be bent or broke when the shaft is moved laterally such as when an animal runs or you wiggle the shaft which puts great leverage on a head. But with the animal the head is stopped and has done all it will do, and if you embed any head in wood or such you should cut it out. Another thing that is unique to heads such as ST is that the rear of the blade is vertical, and hitting another head in a target you can damage one or the other since the head will not glance off as with other heads. And be careful of steel support rods in 3D animals, no head will win that battle.

One problem I have noticed is some people do not operate heads as the manufacturer intended. With any head you should use what the manufacturer provides, and nothing else. For instance I have heard of people not using the washer, or substituting a rubber O ring for it, or adding one. Wrong. ST are designed to be used as they are for maximum strength. If you use the washer and tighten down tight with a wrench you have a strong head. And that is good advice with any head, any head tightened down with a wrench is stronger than if it is not.

I did notice that you stated that the blades in your ST would move side to side. If that happened something was wrong and the head would not be as strong as it is. Manufacturing is done with very tight tolerances, and while I have heard of a few cases of loose blades, very very few, and I replace those. Tricks lock down rock solid, and are like a one piece all steel head except you can resharpen or replace blades unlike one piece heads. I should also note that since 04 I revamped the heat treat and made a design change to make ST even stronger for insurance.

Something else I would like to comment on about tests is when comparing heads there should be an apples to apples comparison. For instance, a 3:1 "cut on contact" may outpenetrate another head. Guys commonly jump to the conclusion that design is best. Problem is the 3:1 "cut on contact" may be a 2 blade 1 1/8" head being compared to a 4 blade 1 1/8" head that cuts twice as much. And long 2 edge "cut on contact" heads actually suffer in penetration when they hit bone, as they pinch when the thin tip tries to cut bone and the friction kills penetration. A 3 or 4 edge tip will shatter bone like a splitting maul and continue. And bone is what limits penetration in an animal.
ST 100 and 125 are available in 2 sizes, 1" Standard and 1 1/8" Magnum. In relation to the Wacem 100, you would want to compare the Standard ST. While the Wacem is a 1 1/32 3 blade, the Standard ST is a 1" 4 blade. You can see that the ST cuts almost 1/3 more than a Wacem, and a 4 blade head will open a larger hole than a comparable 3 blade.
One other thing I noticed in your tests was the Shuttle T lock. You commented that it had exceptional penetration because it penetrated 3/4 of its length, while other heads usually penetrated less, and that was testimony of the effectiveness of the scimitar design. Actually, if you look closely, you will see that the first half of the head the blades are so low as to hardly make a cut. It is comparable to a fieldpoint. When the Shuttle stops at 3/4" of its length it has merely cut as much as other heads with straight blades which have penetrated less of their length.

Frankly any claims made of curved blades or serrated edges being an improvement in any way over straight blades or straight edges is simply marketing intended to catch the fisherman instead of fish.

Just a few thoughts, I don't mean to be disrespectful or make anybody mad, I enjoyed reading the tests. Just thought I might add a perspective, keep the tests coming, THANKS GARY

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bowtech

Posted - 02/05/2006 : 13:12:31

Thank you so much for your thoughts oldhootowl and you (as always) are a real gentleman
I have no idea why slick trick is blocked

To answer some of the questions that you brought up oldhootowl...I was asked to do some running posts on my tests last year and so yes there are things that dont make sense.

As the tests progressed forward things changed (as they generally do) from my original observations.
(I wont be doing anymore tests this way in the future as it is seemingly a waste of time as the roller coaster progresses )

I did see great flight with the S.T. heads and it was in a heads up test that I performed where they did less than perfect.
Keep in mind that this test was done with a slightly de-tuned bow , to show what head suffered less under this condition.
(A condition that exists to often)

Out of a tuned bow your heads flew well.

I still have a couple of your heads down stairs and the blades are loose but I do not want a refund since I like to keep all heads I test in case (in the future ) I am called out.
(I want the evidence)

When I spoke to you over at Bowsite you convinced me (by your comments) to re-test your heads and I will and if anything shows improvement I will do a test update.

The magnus did not make the grade the first time either but on a re-test 2yrs. later it was a great head and I recommend it alot.

As to apples to apples tests...I dont do that for a reason

Unlike 5shot (who I respect for what he does) I do not rate a head that will not pass my test.

I do a pass fail test and that is it.

There is no head that cant pass if it is crafted to survive or any one head that wont pass that is made to survive.
(that I have found)

I wont make any friends in the industry with such tests...no one wants to have a guy running around telling about product failures but that is not my intent (too fail things) and never was , when I set out to find the best heads.

My reason for testing is for the benefit of hunters and the animals they hunt.

The worst thing I can imagine is that once in a life time animal being lost to a failure or having a wounded animal found by an anti. because of the same failure.

I hope that you can understand and once more , let me thank you for being so fair minded now and in the past


Now to the question....That was asked by LockMaster :

Thats a real poser since I dont reccomend any head that fails and I have not finished with the slick trick yet.

Hmmmmm....

Alright...Since I am in a corner here , I will go out on a limb and just tell you that if I had either head to choose from (but could only use one) I would (so far) take the slick trick.

(YOU SAY THAT NOW! LOL!)

No , really....but I have to exsplain why.

The one thing that the Wac 'em head had in the test was the better flight and that is really important and IMO could be enough alone to win the decision but then you have to remember That I am all about the design of the head.

First off , the slick trick head has a far better capability of putting blood on the ground by inflicting the largest wound channel.

Secondly , I have seen the defects in the Wac 'em and they are two fold to the defects I found in the Slick Trick.
(maybe not on par problems but a problem is a problem and 2 against 1 has to account for something )

Third , I have not heard of any attempt from Wac 'em to address thier problems where the slick tricks have been addressed.

For this reason , I have to go with my gut and follow logic.
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oldhootowl

Hi, Very pleased that you didn't take offense. As I said I enjoy the tests. As far as a refund on a product, if it does not meet specs that would be the thing to do, but I understand your reasoning. I have the Standards which I call Standard because they make the same size hole as your standard 3 blade head such as a Rocky Ti. And I have Magnums that make the "10 gauge holes". Let me know if you want either or both to play with and I will send you some for future tests. I don't mind sending some heads to a legit tester. Individuals who ask me about flight I just tell them to order some and if they are not pleased send them back for a refund, and that works well. And I applaud you for calling them like you see them, even and unbiased reporting is all a manufacturer can hope for. When I posted I had no idea I had ever talked with you before. I am a perfectionist, and you can bet I will constantly be looking for improvement no matter what if there is any way to do it. Anyway, carry on, THANKS GARY
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bowtech
Thanks Gary...look forward to the 2nd phase

[admin]

I read that at the front porch, thanks for bringing it over and posting it BT.

[bowtech]

Got the new ones yesterday and pulled the next shoulder out of the freezer