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Post by elk4me on Feb 1, 2006 1:29:19 GMT -5
I am shooting pretty good with the BK2 since the weather has been nice 40+ for Jan in NW Montana is very rare!I just bought the bow last yr near the end of the season and had some issues ,so I haven't shoot it much till this yr, still in the feel out stages. I am hitting good at 20,25,30 yards hitting all them (6) inside the ring most of the time.I noticed when I go back to 40 I am off and it might be from getting tired, or need for more practice ,but what I have noticed on some of my arrows the are going in on a slight angel to the right? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ::)I just had my rest re center tuned about 3 weeks ago. No what do I do? I don't have a center shoot tool or a laser centering tool. I can go back and have the same guy do it at the shop again ,or ask here for help! I have had the bow-tunning guy check my form and am trying to be precise every arrow. MY BH is rather short 6 1/2" so HELP!!!!!!!!!!! If ya need Pic's Bowtech I can take some durring tomorrow shooting session ;D I dont have College till 4 PM MST
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Post by elk4me on Feb 1, 2006 20:26:44 GMT -5
OMG! noone has a helpfull hint on what I should do?
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Post by michihunter on Feb 1, 2006 20:49:58 GMT -5
Sounds like you're getting into a spine issue. If you are still hitting your spot and the angle is only slight, I wouldn't give it too much thought. However, if you are getting a very harsh angle, you could end up with penetration issues. Take a pic of what you're describing and maybe I can help.
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Post by michihunter on Feb 1, 2006 20:51:01 GMT -5
Sounds like you're getting into a spine issue. If you are still hitting your spot and the angle is only slight, I wouldn't give it too much thought. However, if you are getting a very harsh angle, you could end up with penetration issues. Take a pic of what you're describing and maybe I can help. What weight of head are you using? What size shafts? What's your poundage set at? How long are youer arrows. It is not a center shot issue in my opinion.
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Post by bowtech on Feb 1, 2006 21:00:03 GMT -5
This is a very odd one.
You say you are holding the line out to 30 yards and then everything changes at 40?
I could understand the arrow hitting off target because of the rest still not being perfect. (centering does not act as anything more than a starting point)
But what I dont get is the angle after impact?. (If it is not the material of the target itself causing this)
A straight on Pic (nock end facing camera) of an arrow at 20 yrds. and another at 40 yrds. (so that we can see whats going on through transition) would be very helpful.
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Post by michihunter on Feb 1, 2006 21:09:47 GMT -5
I just noticed in another post that you're using 4560's out of that BK2. You're set at 60#'s right? How long are your shafts? I'm really leaning to spine issues right now.
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Post by bowtech on Feb 1, 2006 21:23:00 GMT -5
Certainly could be a spline issue but they are tuneable for that bow.
I use a 45/60 shaft in that same bow @ 28" and get great flight but it is a real tuning issue and center shot tuning will not work since (as you point out Michi.) it is a light spline for that bow/arrow combo.
Also....I thought you were @ 50# elk?
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Post by elk4me on Feb 2, 2006 2:30:21 GMT -5
I have my DW set now at 51# and my DL is 28" and my arrows are with FP 28 1/4" from tip to knock throat If it is being caused bye turning down my DW I can turn it back up ::)I can take pics in the am!
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Post by bowtech on Feb 2, 2006 7:20:52 GMT -5
At 51# those arrows are fine
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Post by michihunter on Feb 2, 2006 11:24:00 GMT -5
Agreed. Get pics Matt and post again. Have you tried shooting even further back? Does it progressively get worse?
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Post by elk4me on Feb 2, 2006 12:26:55 GMT -5
OK! I just woke up after a long night of no sleep! I have class in 30 min ,but when I get back from class in-between classes I will take some pics ;D
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Post by elk4me on Feb 2, 2006 20:48:52 GMT -5
OK Ted and Bowtech I took 6 pics 3 are from 20 yrs and 3 are from 40 yrs 1st pic is front view@20 yrds,2nd is Top view@20 yrds,3rd is side view from 20 yrds! :o4th pic is front view@40 yrds,5th is top view from 40 yrds,and the 6th and final pic is side view from 40 yrs! front view 20 yrds top view 20 yrds Side view 20 yrds 40 yrds Front view 40 yrds Top view 40 yrds side view Hope this help's ;)alot of pics but ya just never know!
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Post by michihunter on Feb 2, 2006 20:54:27 GMT -5
Have you tried at 50 yards? Does the lean get exaggerated? I'm not too overly concerned with that minimal amount of lean. But if it grows as the distance grows, there could be a telltale sign of a problem. And I believe that leran is a sign of potentially being overspined, not underspined as I first thought. Your groupings are relatively the same at both distances which is a greaqt sign. I'm still leaning toward a spine issue.
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Post by elk4me on Feb 2, 2006 21:04:52 GMT -5
HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM? So how can i correct it mitch?
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Post by michihunter on Feb 2, 2006 21:16:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna do some checking on that one. When I get a chance, I'll definitely do some digging and see what I come up with. Here's a thought I first came up with though. Keep in mind though, your problem is minimal in my honest opinion.
Fishtailing
If the arrow leaves the bow with the nock end leaning to one side or the other, Fishtailing occurs. The nock end of the arrow will appear to move from side to side as the arrow follows its flight path. Use the Bare Shaft Planing Test to correct Fishtailing. Shoot three fletched shafts at a distance of 15 to 20 yards (meters), then shoot two identically-aimed, unfletched shafts. If the unfletched shafts impact left (stiff) of the identically aimed, fletched shafts, either decrease the spring tension on the cushion plunger, increase bow weight slightly (if your bow weight is adjustable), or increase arrow point weight. If the unfletched shafts impact right (weak) of the identically-aimed fletched shafts (for a right-handed archer), increase the spring tension on the cushion plunger, decrease bow weight slightly (if your bow weight is adjustable), or decrease arrow point weight. Your equipment is basically tuned when the bare shafts and fletched shafts impact at the same or very near the same location. It is common on a well-tuned bow to have the bare shaft impact a little low and slightly stiff (to the left of the fletched shafts for a right-handed archer). Occasionally, a good tune may be achieved with the bare shaft impacting slightly weak (to the right of the fletched shafts for right-handed archers), but this is less common.
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Post by bowtech on Feb 2, 2006 21:22:36 GMT -5
Its a poser but wait!....see that one straight arrow at 20yrds?. I have to guess but I am guessing that the problem is the fact that you may be torquing the bow Either you are a constant torque (most likely) or you torqued that one shot and it relieved a tuning imbalance. So.....Here is how we find out Torque the bow purposefully but slightly as you are anchored and release cleanly while maintaining that torque. Start by putting pressure on the side of the handle with your thumb as I think (I could be wrong) that (by the looks of the Pics)this torque should correct the toe in of the arrow. I have found that torquing the riser can be beneficial to correct some errors in form or tune. Just try that first because what you have shouldn't be and there is an answer here somewhere. (it may take a few trys to find it though )
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Post by elk4me on Feb 2, 2006 23:40:05 GMT -5
Mitch I am kinda limmited cuz I would have to move my whole course to the right if I want more yardage ,due to the shed behind my setup! Bowtech I am kinda lost! I am always trying to keep the bubble level in my bow site! So your saying try to cant the bow to the right or left slightly?
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Post by michihunter on Feb 3, 2006 0:03:03 GMT -5
Torquing meaqns twisting at release, not canting. The bow has a tendency to be gripped to firmly and as a result will turn ever so slightly in your hand upon release. BT may be on to something here. He suggests doing it intentionally to see if the arrows have the same characteristic, maybe even exaggerated because of the conscious effort.
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Post by intruder on Feb 3, 2006 0:24:09 GMT -5
You guys beat me to it..... I was thinking that from the getgo...... espically with things being on out to 30yrds it sounds more like a confidence issue than anything else ;D good luck buddy!
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Post by elk4me on Feb 4, 2006 1:47:02 GMT -5
OK Guy,s So how do I correct this problem in my form! I have a friend comin over to have a shoot around sometime tomorrow ;D Hopefully he can see what I am doing to make this happen Bowtech I left ya an email
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Post by bowtech on Feb 4, 2006 5:36:58 GMT -5
First we have to see if that is the problem I will try and snap/post some photos to show you when I get back home and the camera men (boys) are up
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Post by elk4me on Feb 5, 2006 1:19:50 GMT -5
We'll Bowtech I explained earlier that we seem to have found out that the arrow is hitting the rest! We tried different shaft sizes with the same results! So it is not a spline issiue.Seems the rest is not sataying up long enough or falling to slow. I have to get a hold of TrophyTaker on mon!
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Post by bowtech on Feb 5, 2006 12:17:57 GMT -5
"I have to get a hold of TrophyTaker on mon" I doubt they will do or can do anything for you Elk But do ask them about being able to go to a higher tension spring if they hit you with the "cant really help ya' buddy" speech. Alot of times people have a hard time thinking out of the box and just need a nudge to get them thinking forward.
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Post by michihunter on Feb 5, 2006 23:34:28 GMT -5
My question is this- Why is the affect only showing at 40 yards? Must not be hitting too hard. I'd try a different nock position and see if that helps. That bow is fast, but not that fast at 51#. Too many people have used that rest without that complication to think that the rest is the problem.
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Post by elk4me on Feb 6, 2006 17:33:43 GMT -5
Mitch I have tried different shafts with diff deg of straightness,weight, different loop positions as well as size and even shortening my release and DL I am at a total loss I am ready to trash the rest and try another one I just want to shoot and have fun,This has been a nightmare from day one with this set up What ya think of the Nap Quick tune 2000 drop away rest?I have to get this solved so I can move on not waste time and $ and precious shooting time messing with the current rest!
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Post by elk4me on Feb 10, 2006 17:44:13 GMT -5
Well here is another weekend of tunning my rest? I think I sm gona take it off and start the set up from scratch. When I got the bow last fall I think the rest was installed improperly.
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Post by bowtech on Feb 10, 2006 20:11:19 GMT -5
Playing should be fun and educational Elk Dont let it eat a hole in you
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Post by michihunter on Feb 11, 2006 16:23:50 GMT -5
Sorry for the long delay Matt. I'm not personally familiar with the NAP. Most of my experience comes from Golden Key rests and the Whisker Biscuits. I'd definitely recommend any GKF rest as well as the biscuit.
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Post by elk4me on Feb 14, 2006 3:15:36 GMT -5
:oWell Guys as of Saturday we re-tuned the rest and changed the loop to Bowtech Specs on the Bow and had good results, but still some minor fletch contact so we are moving in the right direction. I think I may just send it to the Master Bowtech ya know the guy w if the teeth ;D. And let him have his way with her! Sorry I haven't called ya Bowtech but I have been really busy with PC problems and router problems and issues on my 2nd PC so I hope to get to you this week sometime after College one night
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Post by bowtech on Feb 15, 2006 18:14:25 GMT -5
Hey Elk....I was not ignoring you my friend but this other site has got my shorts in a knot! ;D Whatever you want to do....just let me know
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